| Author | Message | ||
| Karl Scherer (Karl)
New member Username: Karl Post Number: 378 Registered: 9-2000 |
As far as I can see, there was no info up to now how to debug a Z program. Here is how I do it: 1. Make a copy of the zrf (click zrf, then CTRL+C, then CTRL+V). 2. In the original zrf, highlight a connected junk of code and delete it with CTRL+X. 3. run the zrf. If the problem is gone, the bug was in your highlighted junk. (Put it back with CTRL+V and take out a smaller junk until you localized your problem.) If the problem persists, take out another junk until the problem disappears. 4. Once you found the location, delete your zrf, rename your backup copy, then correct you bug in this old zrf. Happy coding, Karl | ||
| Daniel Julian (A_grue)
New member Username: A_grue Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2020 |
11 years late but I feel it needs to be said given how you delivered this process. This is absurd. Debugging in this manner would be insanely time consuming. You're asking the programmer to do what debugging tools in other languages already do for them. I'm honestly not sure if you're being sarcastic here. It has been 11 years, so I don't expect you to remember your state of mind while you were writing this post, but if you meant this as wholehearted advice, all I can say is that's a crazy suggestion. Debugging tools would be nice, but it seems the devs have largely moved on anyway so there's no use in asking for it in version 3.0. As crazy as your suggestions is, it's the only way to systematically debug a Z program. As a beginner with "Z" (I personally refer to it as ZRF pronounced "zurf") but with experience in other languages, the lack of such tools doesn't bother me much, I actually like thinking about my program more than I usually need to. Most game systems like this do so much work for you - granted ZRF does provide a general game playing intelligence, something no other program (to my knowledge) provides - that it makes the development of these games trivial at times. While some may see that as a good thing, I am a programmer because I want to have to solve tricky problems. I got into game development because I tend to run into a LOT of problems while making a game. I want to stay busy and preoccupied so that I feel productive at the end of the day. I won't get that if it only took me an afternoon to implement a new chess piece. I suppose this post is a bit all over the place, but I think Karl highlights an interesting aspect of ZRF. Yes it's old and it shows. Yes it's very unfriendly towards the programmer. It is, however, these aspects that make ZRF a "toy", to quote Pargat. He meant it as an insult in his post, but I believe ZRF is better off this way. You aren't going to profit from these games. There's no software company looking for ZRF developers with X years of experience. If you're programming a game in ZRF, you are doing it for fun. You aren't given any tools to debug with because people like myself find that fun. In that sense it can be called a toy. Where to from here? It started as a response to an insane suggestion and now I'm philosophizing about the state of ZoG. I suppose I should end here before I trail off again  | ||
| david bennett (Dpoly)
New member Username: Dpoly Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2017 |
You could always try Polygamo. The debugging is better, or you can tweak it yourself. | ||
| Astrit Bardhi (Aepasa) New member Username: Aepasa Post Number: 38 Registered: 1-2007 |
Hi, To Karl Scherer: How you been debugging a Z program is insanely nice [Thank You for your beautifully crafted GaMes]! To Daniel Julian: Yes, you are 11 years, 5 months, 13 days & some hours & minutes late... To David Bennett: Thanks for a PolyGamo the second best thing ever happened, after Zillions & Axiom [Thanks Greg Schmidt]! Special Thank You: To Jeff Mallett & Mark Lefler for inventing Zillions. To Ed Van Zog for maintaining the Zillions site. & to all developers for such an ingenious Zillions of GaMes! Cheers, Astriti | ||
| david bennett (Dpoly)
New member Username: Dpoly Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2017 |
Nice of you to say so. But Zillions is still better on chess, and its AI is better on many games. They knew some stuff! Do you think a new release of Zillions on a modern gaming platform would be worth the effort, if it were possible? | ||
| Astrit Bardhi (Aepasa) New member Username: Aepasa Post Number: 39 Registered: 1-2007 |
Hi David, Yes, for sure! Oh, but Zillions is fine as iT is, naturally you can always take a 'song' & make iT better [Hey Jude...] Cheers, Astriti P.S. Correction: Ed van Zon |