| Author |
Message |
Shane Freeman (Thegreathabudabi)
New member
Username: Thegreathabudabi
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 9:46 pm: | |
I think most issues could be resolved by setting it up such that users can use any of the current commands in conjunction with any of the other current commands. For example. I personally would like to see an expansion of the change-owner/flip command such that I could script change-owner <player> so that I can change the owner of a piece to any of the players in the game instead of forcing a change to the player whose turn it is currently. I'm not sure why that isn't already possible. It's just combining already engrained commands. Just remove all restrictions to where and with what combination the current commands can be utilized, inluding the end-game conditions.
One fresh thing I would like to see though is to create a command that will run independently of moves. A command that you set to run at periodic sequences (after every players' turn/every x number of player turns) This would be insanely useful in my opinion. |
Greg Schmidt (Gschmidt2)
New member
Username: Gschmidt2
Post Number: 58
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 10:50 pm: | |
[...such that I could script change-owner <player> ...]
I agree completely, that's why Axiom's change-owner and change-owner-at both have a <player> argument. If you want to specify the current player, just specify current-player as the <player>.
[A command that you set to run at periodic sequences (after every players' turn/every x number of player turns) This would be insanely useful in my opinion. ]
Axiom supports the above capability via the OnNextTurn and other events.
-- Greg |
Shane Freeman (Thegreathabudabi)
New member
Username: Thegreathabudabi
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 5:58 pm: | |
I downloaded Axiom and tried to follow through the basic tutorial, but it just wasn't vibing with me.
I like Zillions because its language and format resemble C++ which I've dealt with before. On top of that, I can always open up existing zrf files (which is how I've learned most of what I know) and pick them apart for knowledge.
Can I do the same thing with Axiom? What little of the tutorial I survived made the process seem overly complicated.
The majority of my programming experience is Assembly Language programming though, which makes Zillions very frustrating sometimes because it doesn't allow you to manipulate its commands however you wish. |
Greg Schmidt (Gschmidt2)
New member
Username: Gschmidt2
Post Number: 59
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 7:01 pm: | |
[I like Zillions because its language and format resemble C++ which I've dealt with before.]
It's really based on Lisp, which uses lists (..) and prefix notation (<operator> <operand> <operand>... ).
C++ does not use list notation and is infix based <operand> <operator> <operand> so I'm having difficulty seeing much similiarity there. Perhaps you're referring to the function call syntax of func(arg1, arg2, ...) which is superfically like (func arg1 arg2 ... )
Axiom is Forth based which uses postfix notation e.g. <operand> <operand> ... <operator>.
If you can get past the syntactical differences, they're all functionally the same. IMO, what really matters is the completeness of the underlying language. Zillions leaves out many things such as the ability to do math and to define and use data. In addition, the gaming model provides little access to the game programmer such as your example of the inability to perform turn based computation. Because of that, you'll notice a slew of posts in this forum which begin along the lines of "I wish Zillions would do x...". Axiom overcomes this by providing a full programming language and rich access to the gaming model.
[Can I do the same thing with Axiom?]
Anything that can be done in Zillions can be done in Axiom - and more which was the primary goal. However, as you've discovered, the price of admission is greater and that is why I recommend it in cases where it is impossible to represent your game in zrf or Zillions plays your game badly (e.g. connection games). Because of that, there is a learning curve involved which one must be willing to overcome.
[The majority of my programming experience is Assembly Language programming though, which makes Zillions very frustrating sometimes because it doesn't allow you to manipulate its commands however you wish.]
Forth offers a comparable degree of power in that regard. |
Keith Carter (Keithc)
New member
Username: Keithc
Post Number: 154
Registered: 8-2000
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 10:14 pm: | |
Hello Shane,
I am contributing to the discussion here as an Axiom apprentice. You can look into Axiom .4th files from published games and learn from them. There are currently 24 of them. My effort, Dots-n-Boxes was done with teaching in mind. It is extensively commented. Axiomatic Hello World provides an alternate, as simple as possible, introduction to the basic Axiom game format.
I do borrow code/concepts from other Axiom games. For example the Game of Naos uses a board map brought in and edited from Dieviersity.
One big thing that Axiom has going for it is Greg. He is actively involved in the development of Axiom and has been an excellent resource. |
Karl Scherer (Karl)
New member
Username: Karl
Post Number: 370
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 4:31 pm: | |
See also my Z-game "Axiom Made Easy"
at:
http://www.zillions-of-games.com/cgi-bin/zilligames/submissions.cgi/65691?do=show;id=1502
which contains an extensive introductory text and annotated example games to make you familiar with the most important Axiom facts from a Zillions perspective. |